Daily Archives: September 24, 2008

Catholic verses? Part 3

In the first part, I explained that Marcus Grodi, a convert to the Roman church (RC) and host on The Journey Home, has a list of ten verses that influenced him to consider conversion to the RC.  The third verse he talks about is 2 Timothy 3:14-17

2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Marcus makes a point that I do agree with, but that doesn’t lend itself to one side or another; protestant nor RC; he says that the scripture refered to in verse 15 would have been the Old Testament (OT).  This is true as far as it goes; the scriptures that they would have known since being children would have only been the OT, since the NT hadn’t yet been written.

However, Marcus then tries to make the point that the scripture mentioned in 16 would be the OT, hence this verse cannot be used to support the more protestant idea of sola scriptura (scripture alone).  This isn’t the case, as he limits the use of scripture only to the OT, and that is not what the verse says, it simply says ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.  That does not exclude the NT; in fact two examples of how this is refuted are below.

Paul, in 1 Timothy 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward names the source of these quotes “scripture.”  The first part about the ox is found in OT, Deuteronomy 25:4, and the second part about the labourer is found in the NT books of Matthew 10:10, and Luke 10:7.

Peter, in 2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction declares Paul’s epistles “scripture” by referring to “other” scriptures.

Also, this passage in 2 Timothy does underline the importance of scripture.  One big point in protestant circles is that doctrine cannot contradict, or go against scripture.  True doctrine will line up with scripture, not conflict with it, any position that is of the Holy Spirit will not go against scripture, since it too is God inspired.  This is why so many of us Protestants turn to the scripture when looking at doctrine; there are some things that organizational churches do/don’t do that are not referred to in scripture at all…but, these things are different than a doctrine that blatantly contradicts scripture (OT or NT) ; that should not happen.

In short, I see nothing in 2 Timothy 3:14-17 to support an RC position over that of a protestant one, and in fact, these verses highlight the central role of scripture for every believer.

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Filed under Apologetics, Conversion, The Bible, Theology